Jonathan: [00:00:00] Hey, thanks for checking out the Dad complex. I’m Jonathan Silva, and today I have my friend and business owner, Michael Clintsman. He owns a Atomic Bar PM and Local bar and grill here in Lubbock. I really look up to him as a father and as an entrepreneur, so I’m excited to have this conversation with him.
Uh, hope you enjoy it
Michael: Michael, welcome. Howdy, sir. Welcome to the dad
Jonathan: complex. I like it. I like it. Dude, I’m really pumped to have you on and I don’t know how much you know about how I think about you, so I’m excited to see how this conversation goes,
Michael: man. I’m a fan and uh, so the feeling’s mutual.
Jonathan: Dope. So I think something to like point out.
beyond. Well, okay, let me start, start with this. Michael Clintsman. Yes, sir. Owner operator, bartender, uh, when needed. Yes. Uh, also Plumber ho. Yeah. jack [00:01:00] of all trades. Um, for bar pm. Yes sir. Local bar and grill and atomic pizza. Mm-hmm. Lounge.
Michael: Yes. You got It and pizza.
Jonathan: Kitchen. Kitchen, yeah. And ke Yes. Yeah.
There you go. Um, so all three favorites of mine. Um, since, I mean bar PM was Kate and I’s Spot when we were young. I love that. Um, lots of date nights ended there. lots of, uh, arguments when we were younger. Yes, sure. Started there. Get that. Um, and when we first started dating, I was running sound at Bashes.
Oh really? Uhhuh. . I didn’t know that. Yeah. And uh, So Kate would be at pm I was underage. Mm-hmm. , so I couldn’t get into PM at that time. Okay, that’s good. Yeah, you too strict. Um, still are. Uh, but Kate would, uh, come over to Bash bashes and see me for a minute in between bands and then go walk back [00:02:00] to PM . Um,
Michael: I had no idea.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jonathan: Wow. We sent each other pictures like, Hey, what are you doing? How’s it going over there? Yeah. How’s it
Michael: over there, ? Yeah. Well, uh, appreciate your pat patronage. Yes. And uh, you guys have just been great to us with, uh, social media presence and. Marketing and all this stuff. I mean, if you looked at our Facebook or Instagram before you guys got involved, it was, it’s embarrassing
Uh, but we’re just so happy to be a part of y’all’s team. Yeah. And what you, what you guys have done with us and. Help us grow in our business. It’s been amazing. And I love that
Jonathan: you said that you’re happy to be a part of our team because that’s not how we see it. Oh, . Like we’re a part of your team. You know, I like it.
We feel like we are employees and I love your staff. I love like going in there and, and seeing the, the familiar smiles and the, you know, some of them, especially at [00:03:00] pm I think, um, maybe not anymore. . Um, but very recently there were still people there that bartended when we were going all
Michael: the time. It’s crazy.
I’ve got guys that have worked there for 13, 14 years. Yeah. And, uh, the, uh, at that place, more so our turnover rate is lower. I don’t know why, uh mm-hmm. , but they become part of the family and get to know the regulars and Yeah. At the other two, it’s a little higher turnover rate. Not sure why, but a little bit younger crew.
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well,
Jonathan: I, I love what you do. Um, also real big point is that your children’s have real fresh squeezed lemon. That’s
Michael: true. That’s true. It’s a big deal. You know, it is a big deal. Texas and Lubbock, Texas. You gotta make a good chi and it comes in a mason jar, which is even more Texas. Yep.
And, uh, uh, you know, my staff make. A [00:04:00] very good Chilton, and, uh, they may not, when they get busy, enjoy it so much, but we figured out a way. Yeah. We, we, we do our, uh, lemon juice pre-shift now. Yeah. Put it in a store and pour and uhhuh, uh, makes a big
Jonathan: difference either way. Yeah. It’s second to none. Thank you.
It’s, it’s important to say, but we’re not here to talk necessarily about that. We’re not here to talk about Tadpole, I really, what are talking about, about, you know, you being a dad and. building these successful businesses and not just on your own, alongside Paige, your wife. Um, yes, sir. And you guys literally grew up in this business?
We did. Um, and so I, I want to know more about what that was like, you know, for yourself, like balancing all that. And, uh, you know, something that I’ve always appreciated conversing with you about is, uh, is about fatherhood and, and. Figuring it out. Um, and even beyond that, like business principles or business like right thought processes, um, you’ve always really [00:05:00] been there for me.
And I definitely see you as a mentor. Even when I first met you, you know, we both, we were pretty much neighbors. Mm-hmm. . Yes, sir. Um, and vintage. And so you’re playing with your kid? I’m playing with my kids, yes. It’s like this the typical like, dad,
Michael: dad move. Yes. Yeah. And we hit it off instantly, right? Yeah.
Uh, uh, I can’t remember who you were working for. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t think it was J Fer.
Jonathan: No, I was on the railroad at that time. Oh,
Michael: really? Yeah. But I could spot you out a mile away playing with your kid. Uhhuh . And, uh, and y you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a, I mean, a measure of, of his, of a man is who you are as a father.
I’m, as far as I’m concerned, uh, , there’s no better blueprint, uh, of who you are as a person is in your ch children. Um, and when, if you were to ask my son right now, if something were to ever happen to dad, what would dad want you to remember? Uhhuh . And he would [00:06:00] tell you verbatim? Yes, sir. Yes ma’am. And to work hard.
Uh, those, those are the things. That I want to leave to him because I think hard work is somebody that har works hard, is hard to find these days. Yeah. And, uh, and that’s just, you can move up. You don’t ha I, I feel like hard work replaces talent, uh, education, anything. Uh, if persistence and hard work trumps everything, you can move up.
By your work ethic and who you are as a man opposed to your talent or your education or whatever it may be. Yeah. Uh, so
Jonathan: no, that dude, I, I love that. And I, I, I love the confidence in, in knowing what your son would say. And, and forgive me, I’m forgetting his name. Uh,
Michael: his name’s Everett. Everett, we call him.
That’s right. Him ever, ever. Because we love him forever. That’s cool. And, uh, [00:07:00] he, you know, , he, he’s a sweetheart, very sensitive. Mm-hmm. , uh, school’s a challenge for him, like it was me. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, so he’s gonna have to work hard at it. Mm-hmm. , you know, uh, what, I’m gonna turn the interview around, do you?
Okay. Yeah. Uh, what, what do you think now being a business owner, what, what is the hardest thing combined with being a father? Is it time away or,
Jonathan: well, so, um, my current career. is 100%. Ru wanted to be at home more. Mm-hmm. . So I was working, you know, when we first met, I was working on the railroad. Um, my father-in-law worked on the railroad.
My brother-in-law, Andrew, who’s now a partner, um, at the tap pool agency. Incredible videographer, incredible creative person. Um, and for the record, we are talking about him, like he’s not in the room, but he’s right in front of us. Yes. . Um, but, uh, the. , you know, we, we were busting our tails and making good [00:08:00] money Yeah.
And good insurance. And for being, you know, 21 to 25, I mean, six figures, never had to worry about insurance. Right. Um, I mean, that’s,
Michael: that’s unique. That’s a, that’s a big deal. And you are in an affluent neighborhood at a young age, right? Yes. So you, you grinded to get there. Yes,
Jonathan: absolutely. It, it was 100% blood money.
Um, and then at, at some point, having Penelope, it was like, I, I’ve missed so much. Right. You know, hoping and stressing out whether I was gonna be there for birthdays or Christmas or Sure. Mm-hmm. , you know, one year, um, was it 2016 when it snowed really bad and Lubbock just shut down for like a summer. I remember that.
Yeah. I was, I had right before that storm hit, I was on a train to Amarillo, got stuck at a hotel in Amarillo and there was no way to get back. via car. There’s no way to get home, back home on a train because the snow drifts had covered the [00:09:00] rails. So I was stuck in a hotel for four days. Wow. Had no food because all, yeah.
Everything was shut down. Everything was shut down.
Michael: It was, it was off of like, uh, coffee pots, I’m sure. . Yes. And
Jonathan: the whole time I was just like, , I’m literally wasting my life right now. Mm-hmm. , this is four days that my kid is at home. Mm-hmm. with my wife in the
Michael: snow, which is special, and to see their face with that amount of snow.
You missed those important moments. Yeah.
Jonathan: Yes. I, I missed it. And I think that, and you know, I’ve never thought about it this way, but I actually think that was her first snow and I wasn’t, Right. You know, totally heartbreaking. And so I, I made the decision or not, I, Kate and I made the decision for me to start working my way into marketing more seriously.
And so I was working freelance. I was writing, so I was, I’d be working, I’d get to, I’d get to a hotel and start working some more, and then I’d get home, start working some more, and I just busted my [00:10:00] rear to get to where we are now. Right. It’s, it’s super. Uh, I’m very thankful for the life that we’ve been able to create and because we’re surrounded by people that we love mm-hmm.
and now at this point in my career in marketing, I get to work with people that I love and, and work for people that I
Michael: love. I can see that like when you guys come in, you guys are a family. You guys are co cohesive unit. Uh, it’s, it’s great. And, And to see where you’ve come and where you are now, and we’re sitting in your beautiful office.
It’s, uh, I’m impressed. I know. You
Jonathan: know, it’s a trip to like, being here and be like, oh wow, this is my, this is our office. You know, this is
Michael: happening. It’s fancy af here. . Yes. I like it. But,
Jonathan: you know, to, to circle all that up though, I, I do put a lot of what’s happened here to that first time that we met mm-hmm.
and me being so like, whoa, this. handsome dad out here playing with this kid, owning these businesses that I love, and [00:11:00] also just enjoying the, this moment, this beautiful afternoon and like just that, that little like 30, 45 minutes and having a great conversation with you. It’s like that’s someone I look up to That’s.
Thank you. That’s what I want to do.
Michael: You need a better role model . Uh, but, uh, you know, to to to that point, uh, uh, I don’t know how your industry compares to mine and being a business owner. Uh, I’m not gonna lie, I took a job interview last week. Oh. Uh, I got made an offer I’m not gonna add today to decide, but I don’t think I’m gonna take it.
I can’t say the company name right now, but, uh, , what attracted me to that was insurance. Mm-hmm. , uh, a nine to five. Uh, when you’ve owned your own business For as long as I have, uh, my job entails seven days a week, you know? Yeah. I, I can’t turn my phone off until two o’clock in the morning. Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s hard to [00:12:00] not think about work or walk through the doors every single day.
And when I took that interview, the money was okay. , you know, the grass is always greener. Yeah. Uh, I thought, you know, I can go to work at eight and be home at five and not miss dinner. Mm-hmm. or putting them down or, you know, pot, the liability aspect. Right. Which I would still have with my business, but, uh, and releasing the ownership and.
paying somebody more and expecting them to care about it as much as I do is, mm-hmm. is kind of the reason why I’m gonna say no. Yeah. Uh, but I think the grass is always greener and you don’t know many bar owners especially that are, you know, Alcohol centric and right across from the university and 21 to, you know, 28 demographic, uh, the liability is always there.
Mm-hmm. , uh, you know, you worry about, uh, the dr shop, a jam [00:13:00] shop case coming through if somebody leaves and drinks too much and. Right. You know, God forbid there’s an incident like that, those are things that keep you up at night and mm-hmm. Uh, they call those bar killers. Yeah. And, uh, and, uh, so you worry about that stuff, but I’m, I either need to open another one or y you know, I, yeah.
I want to do more constantly. I’m like, you, you know, once we get something going, it’s, I, I love the creative process of mm-hmm. . Uh, you know, creating a new business and new jobs and, uh, providing for families. Uh, but I also get to leave whenever I want. Yeah. I get to go on vacations whenever I want, and so I am flexible to that point.
And that’s what’s great about owning your own business. I feel like you don’t miss as much stuff as you would working for someone else. Yeah, because you can take, for the most part, Take that time away from your business and say, Hey, I’m gonna be at the soccer game. [00:14:00] Right? Or I’m gonna, I mean, our, our kids are everything.
Mm-hmm. , uh, and, uh, the best part about coming home is when they dad and wrap your, their arms around you. It makes a bad day. go
Jonathan: away. Absolutely. Yeah. And you’re a little bit different than me in the sense that you started business before you had kids, so you had a different luxury than I did. You’re right.
And I, I would, what was that like, um, before kids,
Michael: so it was easier, right? Mm-hmm. , um, because, . My wife said she’s a warrior. Mm-hmm. and I’m an optimist. Uh, she was like, you know, when we started Bar Pmm 16, 17 years ago, I can’t even remember. Uh, you know, we lived in a rent house in Tech Terrace. Mm-hmm. , uh, you know, we had not nice cars.
We had no one that depended on us. She was like, it was, it seemed like I was. Not happier, but [00:15:00] I didn’t worry, you know, we could always find another job and, and, and make ends meet. And the more successful you get the, I think your things and. your things own you. Mm-hmm. . And you don’t want to sta take a step back.
Right. But when we were younger, we didn’t have the worry of like, oh my gosh, is our kid failing third grade? Right. You know, is he dyslexic? Or like, oh my gosh, what if a business does go out of business? How do we maintain this lifestyle? And we were also able to work six nights a week. six days a week. You, you, you know?
Yeah. And be there constantly. No risk. No risk. And, and we had a better handle on it and we weren’t itching to get home. Mm-hmm. . Um, but also the way I ran my business at. 25, 26. I, I’m surprised I’m still here. . I’ve learned a lot. Yeah. And, uh, but it was easier. And, uh, yeah, and we, uh, we weren’t even married when [00:16:00] we opened Bar pm and Bar PMM stands for Paige and Michael, which a lot of people don’t know about, but, uh, Oh shoot.
Where was, but, but once we had him and got married, things got more serious and I waited six years to ask her to marry me. Uh, after you started Bar Pm a uh, no. Oh, okay. Oh, we dated after you started dating? Yeah, we met at Rocky LaRue’s, which is now Local. Yep. She was a bartender and I was working the door.
And, uh, that was 22 years ago and, uh, got the opportunity to manage and run that one, but, I, I, professionally, I wasn’t in a place to ask her to marry me. Mm-hmm. as just a bar manager. I wanted, we always had aspirations of owning our own place and, uh, I, I just, I couldn’t start a family. perf and she drove her crazy.
Yeah. Professionally, I just wasn’t where I needed to be to say, Hey, I’m ready to start this life with you. I wanted more and be able to [00:17:00] provide and, uh, I think that’s something, looking back, I wish I could have changed because really my only regret is that I did not ask her to marry me sooner. And. have my son sooner because, you know, we waited a long time to be professionally.
Okay. Yeah. And looking back, that’s just less time I have with my son. Mm-hmm. and things would’ve been fine. That’s interesting. And I wish I could go back and have him a little sooner. Yeah. And, uh, wow. Yeah.
Jonathan: But, uh, so on the other side of that for me, like I asked Kate to mar to marry me in September of 20.
- Mm-hmm. , we found out we were pregnant November or October 31st. Oh, wow. Of,
Michael: uh, that scene. Yeah. There
Jonathan: you go. And that was like, okay, here we go. Yeah, we’re running.
Michael: It’s, it’s scary and yeah, things get super real.
Jonathan: Well, and I talk to people all the time. They’re like, you know, they’re, they’re married. They’re like, we know we want to have kids.
We just don’t know when. And [00:18:00] the truth. There’s never a good time or a
Michael: bad time. There’s not a perfect time. Yeah. Right. It’s just, you just gotta do it and you gotta figure it out. It, and, and, and people always do. And the longer you wait, I get want wanting to be, you know, financially s secure, but that’s just time I lost with my son.
I love that. That I can’t get back, you know? Yeah. And, uh, he’s amazing, but, uh, and he understands that dad won’t be home all the time for dinner. Mm-hmm. and that. You know his favorite thing when he was the kid? He’s, he’s heard me. That’s me. I’m sorry. Oh, you’re good. Uh, he’s heard me fire people over the phone and he, and he is, and he is, like, he would tell my business partner that he is fired all the time, but, uh, nothing makes me happier.
And I I know you’ve seen him in our business. Yeah. He’ll get in there and he’ll make dough and he’ll run food and he’ll run drinks and he thinks he’s cool when he is doing it, but I just. [00:19:00] Getting him in the business and showing him what dad does. Mm-hmm. , it’s important. And where the things that he has come from.
Yeah. And that’s why it may not be home, right? Mm-hmm. at dinner sometimes, and, uh, but, uh, it’s. It’s the, my biggest joy in life is, is my son. Yeah. It’s
Jonathan: really unique. Getting to show them what hard work looks like as an owner. Mm-hmm. or like as a business manager or whatever, opposed to, as an employee, like the way that I saw my dad as hard work.
Right. You know? Cause I didn’t really know what my dad did. Right. I just knew he went to. . Okay. He’s gone a lot and came home and then kept working and, and did. My dad was a super generous person. Uhhuh. as far as like giving up his time and his, and his body, like, you know, physical stuff to, you know, he would go do manual label labor for anybody.
Um, just to be helpful, just to be helpful. Mm-hmm. . Yep. And, um, so that, that was super interesting. But now being able to show our kids [00:20:00] like, this is how you talk to a client, like, this is how we talk to people and this what we want for them, and. Did they get it? Hearing us argue? So, yeah, I think they get it.
You know, Darren comes in and she’s like, Hey, I’m the male lady, and she, she wants to help everybody. She’s like, Hey, do you have a note that I need to give to anybody? And she, you checks in at everybody’s desk and I like it. Um, penny loves media and like she wants to be an, an actor and wants to do commercials and wants to be involved in that way and, , do you know that they understand branding, which is really cool.
That is neat. Um, I’m still personally trying to figure out how to transition that with w like how, what that means as far as working hard and, and Right. What it’s like to get to this point. Sure. The work that it took to get to here mm-hmm. .
Michael: So, to, to that point, and I think you kind of touched on it for a second and kind of backed off, but, uh, you said, Uh, [00:21:00] something about arguing, right?
Mm-hmm. , uh, my son has brought that up once and it broke my heart. Y you know, uh, I, I would say 90% of my wife and i’s arguments come from work. Mm-hmm. , because I think it’s very hard to work with your significant other. Yes. And because you both have very strong opinions about the business and, uh, and he’s heard us argue about work and he’s made a comment before, and so we try not to do it anymore.
Yeah. Uh, because I don’t want him to see that. And also it’s, you know, not appropriate, but we’re both passionate about our businesses and it’s hard for her because she’s taken a step back since she’s had our son. Yeah. And, uh, you know, I always seem to think I’m right, which is usually the case, , but, uh, but, and so she, Sh.
It’s hard for her voice to be hear heard [00:22:00] because she works only one to two days a week and Right. But she still has an opinion. Mm-hmm. , and they may not always line up, but we, but what we always come back to is that we want the best for our business. And that’s okay. And we’re not always gonna agree. We rarely do.
She goes, I don’t get why you, most men don’t have as many as opinions as you do. You have way too many and, uh, and uh, at least aesthetically and when it comes to design and things like that. And, uh, but, uh, she’s great and she’s always been supportive, but I hate him. I hate him seeing us argue about the business.
Jonathan: I know. But you know, on the other side of that mm-hmm. , like I never saw my. Argue. Right. Ever. Really? And they’re divorced now. Oh, no way. Yeah. Wow. Divorced whenever we all left the house.
Michael: Wow. So, so they held on until you guys mm-hmm. , see? Mm-hmm. . I respect that. Right. Yeah.
Jonathan: I respect in a sense too, but knowing that like, they were probably [00:23:00] unhappy for however amount of time.
Right. Sucks to
Michael: think about. Yeah. I see that a lot. We would take bullets, we’d step in front of a bullet for our, our children. So if it’s better for us to, to be together or a, a couple to be together until they get out of the house, like you weigh it. What, what is, if you never saw ’em argue, then you didn’t know.
Yeah. But if it’s a toxic home relationship, then I think that, but you want the best for your parents.
Jonathan: Yeah, I do. And I’m, I’m, I’m happy for whatever, you know, that they made the decision and it was really hard. And, um, you know, I, I. , we don’t really seriously talk about it. Yeah. Kate and I don’t mm-hmm. , like as far as if we were divorced is what we would do.
Cause we Right. We don’t necessarily Yeah. Plan for that. Right. , right. No, you don’t. Yeah. Like, there’s no hypothetical for that. But, um, I know for me, like it hit me really hard in the sense of like, oh, I thought that what they had was loven. I thought that that was like a working relationship. Yeah. And
Michael: it wasn’t.
Do, [00:24:00] do you, are your kids old enough to know, do they have friends that are divorce? ?
Jonathan: Uh, no, no, no. Not, not that they like outwardly mention it so that Yeah, no, um, they don’t, um, but they know that my parents are Okay. So, yeah. Um, that, that’s an interesting dynamic. But they don’t, I, I, I don’t know. Doesn’t matter.
They don’t put it together. Yeah. Right. We didn’t, they didn’t really know enough before the divorce to know what it was. You know the difference. Yeah. It just says what it is. Um, so I don’t have a lot of insight into that.
Michael: Sure. And I guess my son had a best friend that lived next door and they got divorced and it was messy and they had to move and so he realizes it.
And like if we, my wife and I have a very, excuse me. a very, uh, banter relationship. Yeah. And, uh, and so even though we’re joking, he was like, why are y’all arguing? Mm-hmm. . I’m like, we’re not, it’s just how we talk. Yeah. And my wife’s very [00:25:00] loud and we’re like, we’re just joking around and talking. And he is like, okay, I just don’t want y’all to get a divorce.
Yeah. And so, such a big word for Al is he He’s a nine. He’s a nine.
Jonathan: Yeah. Um, you know what’s funny is so Penny. struggles with ADHD and, and, um, dyslexia. Um, and, and really, she, she has to work harder at school. Ki kind of like mm-hmm. ever does. Mm-hmm. . Um, but something that she’s always excelled at was vocabulary.
Okay. And every single test she’s ever said, man, she is an incredible vocabulary way ahead of everybody else. And I credit that to be because for one, Kate’s really smart. Uhhuh . She makes my vocabulary. My vocabulary. There you go. Uhhuh is better because of her too. But we, we talk to our kids like a, as a adult.
Yeah. There’s nothing
Michael: hidden. Same. Same. I think that’s super important. Important like, uh, to be honest with them. Mm-hmm. And, and let them know. And, uh, uh, I’ve been a huge proponent of talking to your [00:26:00] kids like they’re adults. Yeah. And letting them know why certain things happen and. . Uh, that’s, that’s super important.
Kudos. I’m glad we both have smart wives.
Jonathan: Dude, I don’t know what I would do. . I’d probably say a lot more stupider shit. Right. I agree.
Michael: Stupider, stupider shit. . Yes. I like it. Uh uh. But yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting, uh, being a father and a business owner. My, my father was a business owner. He was an advertising photographer and moved to Dallas in the eighties.
And, uh, , he had American Airlines, Pepsi, Footlocker, all these huge accounts, and he was never home. Yeah. Uh, and. I love him and I respect what he did for our family. Um, and then my mother passed when I was 13 and then he had to transition from being a father that was gone all the time. Running a studio, having late night shoots, night shoots, you know, it’s a big [00:27:00] production as you know, to build a set and get talent, hair and makeup.
Yeah. And uh, I became a father at 13 because. , my sister was nine. Mm-hmm. , and I’d assumed that rule role, but he started coming home more often. Letting go of his business, I think, which was hard for him. Yeah. But, uh, but, and you’re still really close with your sister? I am, yes. Uh, she means the world to me and my, not to bring this interview down, but my mom’s dying.
Last words were, I love you and take care of your sister. Mm-hmm. . So I took that to the 10th degree and in high school, she was a nightmare and gotten, you know, Yeah, it, it was, she was hard to wrangle and, uh, but, uh, but she’s an amazing woman. Now, my niece is named after me, Emerson Michael. And, uh, I’d lay in traffic if anyone asked me to for those two.
Yeah. But, uh, so I learned a lot about, you know, taking care of people at a young age and, but I also respected my [00:28:00] father for his hard work. Yeah. You know, I couldn’t imagine, uh, my son seeing me sit around at home all day. , you know, Dr. Phil or whatever, you know, he needs to see me in my element. Yeah. And I love that he gets to come to work with me.
That’s so important. I
Jonathan: think that is something that’s really cool about being a business owner specifically, or, or having a, a career where your kids can be involved or your kids can come to the office and and see that. Isn’t it great?
Michael: Mm-hmm. , I mean, I love it. It’s just a great vibe when they come in, you know, and, and, Is a bar the best place for a kid?
Maybe not. Uh, we do sell food, uh, but, uh, but he, he loves it when he gets there and he gets into the work and he wants to know how much he’s getting paid for the job he does. That’s dope. But, uh, he also doesn’t realize that, you know, uh, two hours worth of stocking product or taking a couple pizzas out to a table isn’t a hundred dollars.
Right. You know, he. , [00:29:00] uh, we have to check him on the value of a dollar too. Mm-hmm. , you know, have
Jonathan: you gotten into that conversation of like economics of a business?
Michael: 100%. Yeah. Wow. What’s that like? Uh, he, it’s hard for him to grasp, right? Because he’s been fortunate to get what he wants when he wants. But, uh, once they get to a certain age, I feel like you can’t just hand it out.
There has to. , uh, there has to be something before that, before you get mm-hmm. a $25 Robuck card. You have to do something for that, you know. So, uh, uh, with him, it’s, you know, cleaning his room or coming to work with me or, you know, working hard on his Sullivan tutoring because mm-hmm. , you know, he’s getting tested for a d and dyslexia and the next week.
So, uh, uh, there has to. a reward for the hard work. It just doesn’t come. Okay, son. Here you go. Yeah.
Jonathan: So what’s funny that, that, while you’re doing that, so when [00:30:00] Penny got tested for a adhd, and I’m reading the pamphlets and like going through symptoms and, and mm-hmm. , there was a, a pamphlet about what ADHD is like in adults.
Oh, right, yes, yes. And I. Kate and I both realized like, oh, I check all of these boxes.
Michael: I was diagnosed dyslexic and adhd, and we have to work harder. Mm-hmm. . And I feel like that that’s a, there’s nothing wrong with that. And we had to work harder to get. Where we got to. Right? Yeah. And I also think as a business owner, especially in your business too, in mine, having ADHD is a blessing.
Mm-hmm. , uh, because we’re able to, to multitask. Yeah. You know, if you tell me to sit down and do paperwork, like taxes or whatever, I’m terrible and my organization’s terrible, but in a free flowing, , that’s where I thrive, is when that adrenaline kicks in and I’ve got a fire here and a fire there. I [00:31:00] can move from one task to another.
Yeah. But, uh, and I think it helps. So I don’t, it’s a disadvantage in school and the way that school’s set up. Um, I think the way school’s set up right now personally benefits girls opposed to boys. Uh, interesting. Because of, if you go to your, your, your kids or my son’s elementary school, 95% women. Oh, I see what you’re saying.
Okay. Yeah. And so the teachers are women. And also I, I feel like at, at a younger age, little girls are able to focus and sit in their seat longer than mm-hmm. , a nine year old little boy who can’t even. Like, dude, I have never thought about that. You know, and, and if you look at trends in college, it was, it was male, male heavy, just because men had more opportunity and now it’s more women are enrolling in the universities and it’s just
I feel like it’s [00:32:00] geared more towards women now, personally. Interesting. I could be completely wrong, Brenda.
Jonathan: Well, and so to, to make a, a, a point about. women and, and mothers and, and they’re incredible. Mm-hmm. like Kate is just fair, phenomenal. Um, no matter how much I would like to argue that I can do X, Y, z, just as good as her.
Yeah. There’s a lot of stuff that I Right. Just, I, I can’t do it. Right. I’m not, not that I don’t try or not that I, I’m just not as good.
Michael: 100%.
Jonathan: Uh, okay. She is phenomenal. Yes. Our house would not operate. That being said though, there’s a lot of things too that, that I do and a lot of things that I do as a man in my house with girls of mm-hmm.
of being a good example. Mm-hmm. , and I know that’s the same for your son that, you know, having a male figure. Is is good.
Michael: It, it’s super important, right? Mm-hmm. and the success rate of children that have that male role model, you know, [00:33:00] exponentially better, uh mm-hmm. , and it, it’s something I battle with, with my niece going back to that, uh, uh, her father’s never been present.
Mm-hmm. , uh, and. , even though he’s a celebrity chef in Dallas and takes in underprivileged youth in his restaurant, and part of their probation is that they work for him. Uh, he’s never been in involved in his own kids’ life. That’s insane. There’s no accolades and probably airing too much dirty laundry, but it, it’s infuriating as a father to watch.
Not be a part of her life cuz she’s beautiful and mm-hmm. , I, I feel it’s very important. Yeah. Uh, and to see what a good father looks like and to have, have that instilled into our children, especially having girls mm-hmm. to know what, hey, My dad was a good guy. So when I get married, I want somebody that’s as good, if not better than my dad.
You know?
Jonathan: Yes. It’s always [00:34:00] in our heads. Totally. Even if I fall short, Kate reminds me like if I, if I start feeling lazy about something, Kate’s like, Hey. , is that what you would want their right. Husband or boyfriend or whatever? Is that what you want them to
Michael: expect? Yes. Ugh. See, Kate’s Kate. Kate is, oh, I think personality wise, she’s very alpha and right and yes.
And yeah, she’s strong. A strong woman, right? Mm-hmm. . And uh, which is also great for, for your daughters, but I’m sure you get reminded of what she should be doing on a regular basis, like, Yes,
Jonathan: we need it. Like, right. Truthfully, ev every, I think every man needs that person in their life. I agree. Um, yeah.
Whether that’s your wife or a friend that can call you on 100%.
Michael: 100%. Um, yeah. Yeah. Do, do you find, uh, I see a lot of friends of mine that have, you know, strong women in their. But what I like about my wife, she’s strong, but she also lets me be a man and, uh, lets me [00:35:00] be me If I want to go golf, I don’t have to ask.
Right. I work hard enough. Yeah. Uh, I didn’t, I didn’t. get to this point in my life to have another mother. Yeah. I need a partner, right? Mm-hmm. , I don’t need somebody telling me what to do all the time, even though sh you know, she likes to, but when it comes to important stuff to me, she lets me be me and have freedom and not keep a chain on.
Yeah. Uh, and, uh, I, I feel like that’s important in a relationship. Yeah.
Jonathan: You know, Kate and I have a really weird relationship. , um, from a traditional relationship because we were really young parents, right. So I didn’t have time to, like, I found myself as an individual mm-hmm. within my marriage and within being a dad.
Sure. Um, I didn’t like, uh, uh, but before we met, or before Kate and I started dating, uh, actually had already met. I used to traveled bands and did music and, and traveled the country two, three times. Um, absolutely loved it, and that’s what I was gonna do. , you know, b [00:36:00] before, uh, her and I started dating, my plan was to move in with some friends in, in LA and live in a garage and then tour as much as I could.
She saved you? She saved me, yes. I made zero money . Um, but so I, I, I, the second that we had kids, or the second that I had a, a, you know, started working on the railroad, music was not an option anymore. Right. There was no like, development of. . So everything like my hobby, my every, all my focus time has been on
Michael: building, building a better future.
Mm-hmm. for my kids. Right, right. Absolutely.
Jonathan: And then outside of that is just kids stuff, right? . Um, so, you know, I, we we’re, we’re very independent, we’re very opinionated and very uhhuh individual. I love that. . We do a lot together.
Michael: You do? Mm-hmm. . The live work relationship? Uh, I think the success rate of staying married.
Mm-hmm. in when you guys are [00:37:00] co-parenting and co. ownership in a business is so hard. Mm-hmm. , uh, you don’t, you don’t have any free time. And Kate and Paige, we love you . Uh, but I, one of the best parts of my day is when I go get coffee in the morning, I take the long way to work and listen to sports radio.
It’s like the one time in my day that I’m not talking with someone and I, it’s quiet time. It’s me by myself, and. , not necessarily away from my family, but just where I can just quiet mm-hmm. and get my thoughts together for the day. So that personal space is important, I believe, when you live and work together.
Yeah. And it,
Jonathan: it’s something we’re learning more and more, and now that we, um, have a little bit more flexibility, we’re, we’re. a little bit more about ourselves separately. Mm-hmm. , um, and definitely something we honestly need to work on more. Right. And, and dive into more. . As far as [00:38:00]
Michael: personal space, I’m available for happy hour any day of the week.
dude, let’s go. I should have brought some whiskey to this, uh, interview, but, uh, but it’s okay. Yeah. It, it is important and, uh, I, I think what, what you guys are doing, it’s, it’s, it’s inspiring to, to me, to see somebody young. And what I love about your business is that you’re creating. business with your business, right?
Mm-hmm. and not many people can say that, and I think young entrepreneurship is something that really motivates me. I had a meeting with a guy before this meeting, uh, a old employee that’s looking to open a, a bar, restaurant, in Shallowater, and this young. came into some money and thought, oh, it’d be great to open a business and a bar would be cool.
Yeah. And within 15 minutes he was like, oh shit. I need fire suppression. How much does that cost ? $60,000. [00:39:00] You know what is, I mean, there’s so many things that PE that people don’t realize when they get into business, but I. Letting them know before they get into business. Yeah. And, uh, but you, but you’re growing business and, and that’s inspiring to me.
And to sit here in this beautiful place and with your crew, everybody’s young and creative and hungry and professional, and you’re just, you’re, you’re knocking it out of the park.
Jonathan: Oh man. That’s a, it’s a big compliment. High praise. I appreciate it. I know. Um, so what. , actually, we already talked about that. I was gonna ask what, like how you balance, um, how you balance it all.
Because there’s, there really is a lot going on there. There is, and I don’t know if maybe you have a more specific answer to that. I know we’ve kind of talked about the conversation, so I,
Michael: I think what’s, what’s important, at least for, for, for me, my wife always tells me, , your business is gonna give you a heart attack, like your blood [00:40:00] pressure’s through the roof because somebody didn’t show up.
It’s okay. Mm-hmm. like, I’ve gotta learn to not sweat the little stuff. Right. And then I think what’s important for me is when I come home is to be able to turn it off, right? Yeah. To not think about like, oh, we have a game day coming up. Like, do I have enough staff? Are they gonna get crazy? What’s gonna get broken?
I mean, is a lime
Jonathan: scooter gonna catch fire? Yeah.
Michael: Is a lime scooter gonna catch fire ? Like, uh, if some, if my phone rings after midnight, I’m terrified. And, uh, so it’s important for me to be able to check out, and that’s hard to do when you own a business to just let go and be present in the moment. And if you have a bad day not to come home.
fucking pissed off. Yeah. When your busy hours. Yeah. Are kids home hours. Right. And so it’s lot. Yes. And And I look at the cameras. Yeah. I’m like, oh shit, they’re busy. is every table getting good service is [00:41:00] and is every drink half full or half empty? Like are they doing what they’re supposed to be doing?
And it’s hard to just. stop. It’s gonna be okay. It’ll be there tomorrow. Mm-hmm. , hopefully. And I can address it tomorrow instead of coming home. Just, just with your shoulders tense and just like, ugh. Yeah. You know, it, it’s hard. Can’t relax. You can’t. Uh, yeah. But, uh, I don’t know. How do
Jonathan: you deal with, um, ever and te.
Michael: ever in technology? We’re really bad. Yeah, we’re bad. Uh, in what sense? I’m bad at technology. That’s why I hired y’all. , , uh, , I don’t monitor what he’s watching near as much as he, I should Uhhuh because he’ll be in his playroom and on YouTube and I have no clue what he is watching really. And some of the stuff that he comes back and says, I’m like, where [00:42:00] did he learn that?
It’s gotta be YouTube or whatever he is watching. Uh, I need to be better. Um, him being an only child is really hard, right? Because let’s say I have a 12 hour day and I get home and. Uh, I can’t be like, Hey, you can’t be on your iPad if I’m exhausted because I’ve gotta be the entertainer. Yep. The play, you know, his buddy, I gotta sit on the floor and play airplanes and mm-hmm.
it’s easy to go to that iPad and just say, Hey. , uh, watch this y you know, and, uh, he hates going to eat with us. If Paige and I want to drive across the street to Las Brisas, cuz he’s an only child, we just give him the, the tablet. Right. Because yeah. Paige and I don’t get a much time to ourselves. To ourselves mm-hmm.
and like enjoy a nice steak and a glass of wine. Yeah. And, and. We, we just talk and we reconnect in that hour. But if he’s there, we’re having adult conversation, so [00:43:00] he is excluded. So it’s easy to give him that tablet. I’ve gotta be better. Yeah,
Jonathan: better. That’s a really interesting thing. Yeah. We’re figuring it out right now too, so we just, we just bought Penny a, a phone.
Um, super. Yeah, like way ahead of time. How old is she Of what we thought we were going to do? She’s eight. Okay. So like in my mind, yes. For the last few years. Maybe when she’s 12 is when we started the conversation. Yeah. Um, but we’re, so we both girls play soccer. Okay. So we, we are really close with the soccer team.
I, I coach. Um, I didn’t enjoy coaching. I love it.
Michael: Oh, so you’re that guy
Jonathan: dumb. Yeah. Yes. No, good for you. I should actually, I say I love it. I really, I mean, I enjoyed it a little bit less. Mm-hmm. the second time around. , but a lot of those kids are like, I talked to the parents and they’re like, wow, I don’t think that we would do this again if you didn’t coach.
Right. So now it’s like, oh crap, they lock you
Michael: in. Yeah.
Jonathan: Yes, they got me. Yeah. And I think they did it on purpose. Like they probably all joined in. Yes, we got town. We can’t tell . But, um, [00:44:00] anyways, they all, we’re all, we’re all close. So we went to a Texas tech, um, girls lady soccer team, soccer game. To watch ’em so they can visualize like, oh, that’s the way we’re supposed to look when we play.
Like that’s the way, not the beehive. Yeah, not the beehive. And so, um, but they all had phones, everybody, and they were like, whoa. Well it’s awesome because we can track them and we know what they’re watching and now instead of giving ’em a tablet or, or something else Right. We can control the content that they can see.
Yeah. It made a lot of sense to us, and we felt bad that she was the one that didn’t have it, you know? Yeah. Hive mind once again. And Zucker That’s right. Gets to us. Gotcha. Um, but it’s been pretty cool so far, and I’m honestly surprised at how much she doesn’t use it. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But that’s her, our younger daughter.
And I know like Daryn, if we give her a phone, we’d have to have some very Implement the rules.
Michael: Yeah. It, it’s tough cuz anything can pop up, right? Mm-hmm. and, uh, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s [00:45:00] hard but I guess living in our neighborhood where, where you live before, that’s the good, that’s why we moved there. Yeah. Cuz our door opens all day long.
It’s old school and we’re like, Hey. He goes out on his bike and we’re like, when the lights come on in the neighborhood, you have to come home. And he could be gone for six hours. I have no clue where he is in the neighborhood. That’s crazy. And my sister, who has a seven year old and. Well FaceTime and she’s like, where’s ever?
I’m like, I don’t know. And she’s like, what do you mean you don’t know? How do you do that? And it, that’s, it’s good to let him go out and be free. Uh, but I’ve gotta get better with
Jonathan: the technology. To be fair. You also have a lot of nosy neighbors. Oh yeah. Oh, they would, if they saw something weird, they would, it’d be on the Facebook.
Listen,
Michael: I’ve got a funny story. I’ll interrupt it. Wa it It was hard. He got grounded for this and he’s such a good kid. He never really gets grounded. Uh, but he got grounded cuz he ended up on the neighborhood Facebook page. Oh. And uh, and you know [00:46:00] how crazy it can be out there. The wall is shame. And we saw a message and it was like, Hey, there’s two boys.
on a hundred 18th Street mooning cars. They’re about seven, seven years old, seven, eight years old. And uh, and I was like, oh no, please don’t be my son because his buddy lives right down the street. They’re the same age, and they’re always together. We call him fricking frack. I’m like, please don’t be ever.
and I walk out the front door and I see them walking down the street just dying laughing. And I was like, boys, oh yeah. Were y’all pulling your pants down? And the lady was like, I wanted to take a picture. Would that be inappropriate? But they got their high knees showing. Yeah. On the corner of the street.
And I go, boys, come here. Were y’all pulling your pants down? And they first looked at me and the I, it complete lied to me. They’re like, no, it wasn’t me. Uh oh. I go, well, you boys were on the neighborhood Facebook page. Was it you? I’m gonna ask you [00:47:00] one more time. They’re like, yes. And so he got in trouble for lying and pulling his pants down.
It’s on his fun, but you know, there’s gotta be some Yeah. But he ended up on the neighborhood page. Yeah. Yeah. That’s kind of cool though. Yeah, right. , right. Remember that one time funny? Yeah. He, he still bring, he thinks it’s cool now, but you know, I, when I took him to the first tech game mm-hmm. , and, you know, I’m not, I.
I’m the Disney dad. My wife is the enforcer. Mm-hmm. . And she hates that cuz I always say yes. And she says no. But we went out to the tech home game and he likes being with the adults and like being with the boys. And he does the thing where he does paper, rock, scissors. But when he gets. To the shoot part, he does the middle finger and he can only do that when he is with dad and my buddies , so he always wants to play.
So I’m, you know, I let him have a little bit of leash [00:48:00] leeway. Yeah. And he loves it. And he knows when it’s appropriate to be a kid and he can let loose a little bit when he is with dad and Yeah, his buddies, when his dad’s had a couple beers, you know. Oh dude, that’s
Jonathan: cool. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Um, one, one question and, and, uh, maybe this is a little deep, maybe not, but, um, learning more about your parents, um, why, how do you think that affected your parenting, your, your mother passing away at 13?
Michael: It just, uh, made me realize how important family is and. Uh, you do what you gotta do to make sure everyone’s okay. Mm-hmm. , uh, and, uh, it was a hard time and she was broken cuz it was always my dad and I camping and then they go to a fancy hotel. When she lost that, I wanted to fill that void in any way I could and just [00:49:00] nurture her and, and just make sure the family’s okay.
Yeah. And that’s what we
Jonathan: do as. Are there things that ever gets to do or that he’ll get to do or get to experience with Paige that you wish you had experienced or like something you’re looking forward to as he gets older? Oh,
Michael: gosh. You, you know, where, where does, like what question? Like, so like what he gets to do with her that I’ve missed out on?
Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I think so. Like the pickups from school and to hear about his day cuz he doesn’t have the tablet and you hear everything. Yeah. And it’s so funny and so cool. And like to hear his unabashed like train of thought when he gets outta class is just awesome. It’s a short drive, but he’s got a lot to say.
Yeah. You know, and I miss that. And, uh, but we’re, we’re great at co-parenting and she fills in where I can’t, but, uh, I’m. . [00:50:00] It’s just that, that, that window, you know, from home, from school to when I get home that I wish I had Uhhuh, and, uh, I’m, I’m better at it than I used to be. And, uh, really teaching some of my responsibility to David.
And so I’m home more than I have been. In the last year or so, even during Covid, I would freak out and have to go to work because my businesses were file flailing and, uh, I was always up there fixing chairs or painting or whatever. Yeah.
Jonathan: But, um, dude, well, um, seriously, I, I can’t thank you enough for.
Uh, spending some time with me. I love
Michael: it. I love it talking. Are you kidding? I’m a big fan and I, um, can’t wait to hear your podcast and cuz you’re awesome. And, uh, I’d love to hear what you have to say on a regular basis. Oh, it’s solid .
Jonathan: It’s, uh, thanks to people like you, it’s a pleasure. So it’s a pleasure.
Well, thank you so much. Um, I do want to point out that, [00:51:00] um, to, to our listeners and, and viewers, whatever, . We had some coffee and the sweet shirt provided by Mono Myth Coffee, uh, here in Lubbock.
Michael: I love that place, dude. It’s so cool. It’s killing. It’s oh, uh, it’s like my stop every morning. I know. The owners are great.
The coffee’s amazing. It’s a cool spot. Yes.
Jonathan: It’s been, it’s been really, I’m really jealous of the building. Yes, too. I wish
Michael: I could have little craftsmen. Yes. Oh dude, it’s so cool.
Jonathan: They’re great. Um, but anyways, they’re phenomenal. You can find ’em. Um, they have, uh, like I said, provided us with coffee too. Oh man.
They
Michael: energetic. I’ll see you tomorrow for coffee. Yeah, let’s do it.
Jonathan: All right. Cool. Thank you. Uh, we’ll
Michael: see you soon. See you soon, my friend. All right.